Polytechnic Approach

SineSurfer · 04-28-05, 08:17 PM

When I applied to CPP, I took the "Polytechnic" thing into mind before applying; I hoped that it signalled a greater reliance on practical applications of various science/engineering fields. As students at CPP, do you guys notice any difference in its approach to teaching as compared to another school? For instance, do you have more labs or projects during a quarter, as opposed to more theoretical research or concepts? Yeah, I know the question seems inherently lame; the CSU system generally offers a practical, well-rounded education, and CPP is probably no different. Still, I would be really interested in what actual students think of the curriculum and/or classroom experience, and how it affects the educational process as a whole. Any feedback would be immensely appreciated. Thank you.

PolarMan · 04-28-05, 09:12 PM

From what I've heard, the engineering programs at both Cal Polys have about 50% more lab work than the same programs at most other schools. Just keep in mind that the mission of the UC and CSU systems are different - CSUs tend to be much more technically-centered, which works wonders for career preparation, while UCs are more research-oriented (but hey, you can still get a great undergrad education at a UC). Which brings me to my next point - both Cal Polys generally have much fewer grad students than undergrad students - this poses a crucial advantage since I personally believe that undergrad students need all the attention they can receive, and the professors' first priority is teaching the students, then research. Combine that with smaller classes, as well. I'm sure some current students here will give you an idea - for instance, some ECE classes top out at 30-40 students, and lab classes generally have fewer students (e.g. UCLA is nice if you enjoy being with 200 other students in the same classroom, and you would be lucky if your professor even knew your name by the 10th week.). The true test of application of your knowledge comes in the form of a senior project, in which I believe is required at both schools for graduation.

Don't get me wrong though, UCs are still great institutions, it's just that on a personal preference, I would go there instead to obtain a graduate degree, but if I'm ready for serious work right out of graduation, I'd take Cal Poly anyday.

xiaoxue · 04-28-05, 10:11 PM

i know a guy who went to a big ten school as an undergrad and rarely did much hands on stuff. i hear similar stories in the UC world where huge classes are common. at poly we have many small lab classes and tons of projects. polar man is right and at age 100 is one of our wisest students and a campus icon.

SineSurfer · 04-28-05, 10:47 PM

Hot diggity, that was fast. That 50% part is pretty reassuring; I've already taken a few college classes as a hs student, and I've usually excelled predominantly in the labs. The abundance of projects also sounds like a blessing, as it further allows you to put your knowledge into practice. However, I realize that CPP probably isn't for everyone; some probably want a more theoretical approach, or want to have closer involvement with research. Heck, some (or maybe a lot) would go elsewhere simply on name value alone. To me, the polytechnic stuff sounds pretty exciting and, well, practical; I'd love the ample opportunity to practice engineering concepts on a frequent bases.

Anyway, thanks for the information, PolarMan and xiaoxue. I'm pretty confident that I made the right decision in choosing CPP. Engineering is an amazing field that the polytechnic approach to education could indeed do justice; I'd be even more excited, but I have to continue pumping myself up for APs next week. Thank god I'll be through with that testing stuff by then.

And by the way, I know I sound like a major geek/nerd/dork in my posts; unfortunately, I cannot lay claim to that coveted title, try as I might. I'm really just like you guys were, one, two, or whatever years ago: excited, perhaps even dumbfounded, by the whole college thing. Thanks once again, guys; you're really helping me get a feel for the university and its programs.

PolarMan · 04-28-05, 11:21 PM

The hands-on approach really works for applied fields. Take this for instance: I've read somewhere that most engineering firms don't really have a preference of where you came out of - you will most likely end up with a job anyway, even if the program wasn't accredited, but the thing of it is - while the UC grads have all the mathematical concepts and such hammered down, their weakness showed when it came time to designing and building stuff. Heck, I've even read on another forum of one UCLA EE grad that didn't know what a transistor looked like (though I haven't received any factual evidence on that comment, perhaps it was just sarcasm). Simply put, the technically-centered, hands-on approach is very underrated.

Though I do agree that the hands-on approach doesn't quite work for everyone; I've seen it referred to as "super hard-a** boring s***" as well. *cough*

^^^^^ From what I can tell in the link above, this guy must be a serious pessimist, or more likely just simply doesn't want to work hard. Both Cal Polys are hard schools to survive through (especially if you pick one of the tougher engineering disciplines, and I've also read that architecture majors are required to do a project every week), though not to the point of the likes of UC Berkeley's über-competitveness.

SineSurfer · 04-29-05, 05:37 PM

Sheesh, talk about sour grapes; that guy probably sucked at SLO, and simply blamed the curriculum for his shortcomings. Still, it proves a good point: not everyone is going to dig the extra labwork and whatnot, I guess. Well, I guess that answers my origninal question pretty darn well; thanks for the help, PolarMan. If I have more questions (which I inevitably will), I'll continue posting in the nextwork forum.

As an added bonus: how does the polytechnic stuff apply to majors aside from the sciences/engineering? I'm asking this question out of curiousity, not necessity, so feel free to ignore it if you're tired of this crap alreay. I know that CPP has plenty of majors that are less technical than engineering; does the practical approach work equally well there? Thanks again, guys.

xiaoxue · 04-29-05, 11:10 PM

yeah, i am in business and we have big practical projects in our college, too. mission is learn by doing, and we do lots of doing...he he.

polar man is a poly pomona legend. imagine a 100 year old student who is still trying to graduate and petitioning into classes. what an inspiration to all of us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SineSurfer

Sheesh, talk about sour grapes; that guy probably sucked at SLO, and simply blamed the curriculum for his shortcomings. Still, it proves a good point: not everyone is going to dig the extra labwork and whatnot, I guess. Well, I guess that answers my origninal question pretty darn well; thanks for the help, PolarMan. If I have more questions (which I inevitably will), I'll continue posting in the nextwork forum.

As an added bonus: how does the polytechnic stuff apply to majors aside from the sciences/engineering? I'm asking this question out of curiousity, not necessity, so feel free to ignore it if you're tired of this crap alreay. I know that CPP has plenty of majors that are less technical than engineering; does the practical approach work equally well there? Thanks again, guys.

PolarMan · 04-30-05, 02:08 PM

Here's another something you'll find interesting about the whole "learn-by-doing" philosophy:

http://www.ee.calpoly.edu/home/history/wra/wra11.html

Main quote to take note of:

Quote:

Julian A. McPhee, Chief of the Bureau of Agricultural Education had become a thorn in the side of many of the senators. McPhee, a city lad who had been sent to the Davis campus of the University of California to study agriculture in preparation for assuming management of the family's extensive land holdings, became disenchanted with the way many agriculture courses were taught at Davis. He had no practical background nor skill in agricultural practice and little provision to counter this deficiency was made for him. So, upon graduation he made a radical turn in his life and goals. He was going to tackle this perceived problem in agricultural education; students were going to learn practice and skills as well as theory and the findings of research.

Julian McPhee was the president of Cal Poly Pomona and SLO from 1933 to 1966.

xiaoxue · 04-30-05, 03:26 PM

you are really a poly legend and you know so much about our school. were you a freshman in 1938 when the campus opened as a 33 year old or did you start at SLO back in the 1920s when you just had graduated high school before the pomona campus opened?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarMan

Here's another something you'll find interesting about the whole "learn-by-doing" philosophy:

http://www.ee.calpoly.edu/home/history/wra/wra11.html

Main quote to take note of:

Julian McPhee was the president of Cal Poly Pomona and SLO from 1938 to 1966.

PolarMan · 04-30-05, 03:45 PM

Maybe I secretly work for Cal Poly and am conducting a research project to see how the students view their school? The possibilities are endless......

By the way, does your name mean either 小學 or 小雪?

Keng · 04-30-05, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PolarMan

Maybe I secretly work for Cal Poly and am conducting a research project to see how the students view their school? The possibilities are endless......

By the way, does your name mean either 小學 or 小雪?

It can't be the first one, second one makes more sense....

SineSurfer · 04-30-05, 05:01 PM

Damn, PolarMan; your knowledge of anything and everything Polytechnic is amazing and/or slightly eerie (maybe it has something to do with age?). Needless to say, I've learned alot from this thread; the approach of practical education appears to work with many, as you (being students) can attest. All that remains is to ask a few other questions relating to GE, school bureaucracy and the like; I'll save that crap for another thread. I gotta go study Calc some more- this cat's out.

jayandbutton · 04-30-05, 08:12 PM

other than the GE courses it would seem that the majority of the others have the hands on approach. that's why this u. is so popular as is SLO.

btw, i think polar man IS julian mcphee!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by SineSurfer

Damn, PolarMan; your knowledge of anything and everything Polytechnic is amazing and/or slightly eerie (maybe it has something to do with age?). Needless to say, I've learned alot from this thread; the approach of practical education appears to work with many, as you (being students) can attest. All that remains is to ask a few other questions relating to GE, school bureaucracy and the like; I'll save that crap for another thread. I gotta go study Calc some more- this cat's out.

m15rules · 04-30-05, 08:12 PM

I think Cal Poly Pomona has a very hand on approach to learning. As a business major we have to do work on many projects and on many group activities throughout the quarter. I have friends who attend UCLA and they hate the school, because they have over 200 students in their classes. Some of them have never given a presentation or had a group project. It's amazing to think about how a great school like UCLA doesn't give their students much hands on training. Personally, I have never had a class with over 80 students. The biggest class was bio. with 70. I think this is a good thing, because you can interact and work on projects that will be vital to your future experience. I think you made a good choice in choosing Cal Poly for its "learn by doing approach". Good luck!

04-28-05, 08:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
SineSurfer Newcomer Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 13	Polytechnic Approach When I applied to CPP, I took the "Polytechnic" thing into mind before applying; I hoped that it signalled a greater reliance on practical applications of various science/engineering fields. As students at CPP, do you guys notice any difference in its approach to teaching as compared to another school? For instance, do you have more labs or projects during a quarter, as opposed to more theoretical research or concepts? Yeah, I know the question seems inherently lame; the CSU system generally offers a practical, well-rounded education, and CPP is probably no different. Still, I would be really interested in what actual students think of the curriculum and/or classroom experience, and how it affects the educational process as a whole. Any feedback would be immensely appreciated. Thank you.

04-28-05, 11:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
PolarMan Active Member Joined: Nov 2004 Location: California Posts: 73	The hands-on approach really works for applied fields. Take this for instance: I've read somewhere that most engineering firms don't really have a preference of where you came out of - you will most likely end up with a job anyway, even if the program wasn't accredited, but the thing of it is - while the UC grads have all the mathematical concepts and such hammered down, their weakness showed when it came time to designing and building stuff. Heck, I've even read on another forum of one UCLA EE grad that didn't know what a transistor looked like (though I haven't received any factual evidence on that comment, perhaps it was just sarcasm). Simply put, the technically-centered, hands-on approach is very underrated. Though I do agree that the hands-on approach doesn't quite work for everyone; I've seen it referred to as "super hard-a boring s" as well. cough* ^^^^^ From what I can tell in the link above, this guy must be a serious pessimist, or more likely just simply doesn't want to work hard. Both Cal Polys are hard schools to survive through (especially if you pick one of the tougher engineering disciplines, and I've also read that architecture majors are required to do a project every week), though not to the point of the likes of UC Berkeley's über-competitveness. Last edited by PolarMan; 04-28-05 at 11:52 PM.

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04-28-05, 09:12 PM	#2 (permalink)
PolarMan Active Member Joined: Nov 2004 Location: California Posts: 73	From what I've heard, the engineering programs at both Cal Polys have about 50% more lab work than the same programs at most other schools. Just keep in mind that the mission of the UC and CSU systems are different - CSUs tend to be much more technically-centered, which works wonders for career preparation, while UCs are more research-oriented (but hey, you can still get a great undergrad education at a UC). Which brings me to my next point - both Cal Polys generally have much fewer grad students than undergrad students - this poses a crucial advantage since I personally believe that undergrad students need all the attention they can receive, and the professors' first priority is teaching the students, then research. Combine that with smaller classes, as well. I'm sure some current students here will give you an idea - for instance, some ECE classes top out at 30-40 students, and lab classes generally have fewer students (e.g. UCLA is nice if you enjoy being with 200 other students in the same classroom, and you would be lucky if your professor even knew your name by the 10th week.). The true test of application of your knowledge comes in the form of a senior project, in which I believe is required at both schools for graduation. Don't get me wrong though, UCs are still great institutions, it's just that on a personal preference, I would go there instead to obtain a graduate degree, but if I'm ready for serious work right out of graduation, I'd take Cal Poly anyday.

04-28-05, 10:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
xiaoxue Guru Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 506	i know a guy who went to a big ten school as an undergrad and rarely did much hands on stuff. i hear similar stories in the UC world where huge classes are common. at poly we have many small lab classes and tons of projects. polar man is right and at age 100 is one of our wisest students and a campus icon.

04-28-05, 10:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
SineSurfer Newcomer Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 13	Hot diggity, that was fast. That 50% part is pretty reassuring; I've already taken a few college classes as a hs student, and I've usually excelled predominantly in the labs. The abundance of projects also sounds like a blessing, as it further allows you to put your knowledge into practice. However, I realize that CPP probably isn't for everyone; some probably want a more theoretical approach, or want to have closer involvement with research. Heck, some (or maybe a lot) would go elsewhere simply on name value alone. To me, the polytechnic stuff sounds pretty exciting and, well, practical; I'd love the ample opportunity to practice engineering concepts on a frequent bases. Anyway, thanks for the information, PolarMan and xiaoxue. I'm pretty confident that I made the right decision in choosing CPP. Engineering is an amazing field that the polytechnic approach to education could indeed do justice; I'd be even more excited, but I have to continue pumping myself up for APs next week. Thank god I'll be through with that testing stuff by then. And by the way, I know I sound like a major geek/nerd/dork in my posts; unfortunately, I cannot lay claim to that coveted title, try as I might. I'm really just like you guys were, one, two, or whatever years ago: excited, perhaps even dumbfounded, by the whole college thing. Thanks once again, guys; you're really helping me get a feel for the university and its programs.

04-29-05, 05:37 PM	#6 (permalink)
SineSurfer Newcomer Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 13	Sheesh, talk about sour grapes; that guy probably sucked at SLO, and simply blamed the curriculum for his shortcomings. Still, it proves a good point: not everyone is going to dig the extra labwork and whatnot, I guess. Well, I guess that answers my origninal question pretty darn well; thanks for the help, PolarMan. If I have more questions (which I inevitably will), I'll continue posting in the nextwork forum. As an added bonus: how does the polytechnic stuff apply to majors aside from the sciences/engineering? I'm asking this question out of curiousity, not necessity, so feel free to ignore it if you're tired of this crap alreay. I know that CPP has plenty of majors that are less technical than engineering; does the practical approach work equally well there? Thanks again, guys.

04-30-05, 03:45 PM	#10 (permalink)
PolarMan Active Member Joined: Nov 2004 Location: California Posts: 73	Maybe I secretly work for Cal Poly and am conducting a research project to see how the students view their school? The possibilities are endless...... By the way, does your name mean either 小學 or 小雪?

04-30-05, 05:01 PM	#12 (permalink)
SineSurfer Newcomer Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 13	Damn, PolarMan; your knowledge of anything and everything Polytechnic is amazing and/or slightly eerie (maybe it has something to do with age?). Needless to say, I've learned alot from this thread; the approach of practical education appears to work with many, as you (being students) can attest. All that remains is to ask a few other questions relating to GE, school bureaucracy and the like; I'll save that crap for another thread. I gotta go study Calc some more- this cat's out.

04-30-05, 08:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
m15rules Newcomer Joined: Sep 2004 Location: L.A Posts: 25	I think Cal Poly Pomona has a very hand on approach to learning. As a business major we have to do work on many projects and on many group activities throughout the quarter. I have friends who attend UCLA and they hate the school, because they have over 200 students in their classes. Some of them have never given a presentation or had a group project. It's amazing to think about how a great school like UCLA doesn't give their students much hands on training. Personally, I have never had a class with over 80 students. The biggest class was bio. with 70. I think this is a good thing, because you can interact and work on projects that will be vital to your future experience. I think you made a good choice in choosing Cal Poly for its "learn by doing approach". Good luck!