Does God Exist? Debate

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by jayandbutton

i think xiaoxue means that the father created a divine man that is a part of him. the other term frequently used is the holy trinity, that of the father, the son, and the holy spirit. in effect, that means we all of faith are a part of his body...ie, emmanuel, or god with us.

does a debate about whether jesus is or is not a part of the father really reduce the significance of god's almighty power and reach?

i say not.

I say yes. If we are trying to prove that Jehovah God exists to atheists, are we going to show him as an Almighty Supreme God? Or are we going to reduce him to 1/3 (followed by his sone 1/3, and his power the holy spirit another 1/3)?

[jayandbutton]

rana, maybe we should habla en espanol.

dude, where do you get this ridiculous one third analogy?
an all powerful being can do or be anything. what separates us from the atheists is the HOLY SPIRIT inside of us.......and hey, that is what we share with HIM! we can't be the Father or the Son but we can allow the other part of the Trinity within us through HIS GRACE!

that's HIS blessing to us that the atheists don't have!

but if you want to keep HIM apart, okay, your thing.

Originally Posted by JPWRana

I say yes. If we are trying to prove that Jehovah God exists to atheists, are we going to show him as an Almighty Supreme God? Or are we going to reduce him to 1/3 (followed by his sone 1/3, and his power the holy spirit another 1/3)?

[Admin]

Yeah the 1/3 analogy didn't make sense at all.

Originally Posted by Carm.org

The Holy Spirit is the third person in the Trinity. He is fully God. He is eternal, omniscient, omnipresent, has a will, and can speak. He is alive. He is a person. He is not particularly visible in the Bible because His ministry is to bear witness of Jesus (John 5:26).
_____Some cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses say that the Holy Spirit is nothing more than a force (Reasoning from the Scriptures, 1985, pp. 406-407). This is false. If the Holy Spirit were merely a force, then He could not speak (Acts 13:2); He could not be grieved (Eph. 4:30); and He would not have a will (1 Cor. 12:11).
_____The truth is that the Holy Spirit is a person the same as the Father and the Son are within the Trinity.

[Admin]

I heard that the I&IT might host the debate online sometime next week. I'll get more info next week. People who missed the entire debate or the later part of the debate (Q&A) will get a second chance to watch it.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by jayandbutton

rana, maybe we should habla en espanol.

dude, where do you get this ridiculous one third analogy?
an all powerful being can do or be anything. what separates us from the atheists is the HOLY SPIRIT inside of us.......and hey, that is what we share with HIM! we can't be the Father or the Son but we can allow the other part of the Trinity within us through HIS GRACE!

that's HIS blessing to us that the atheists don't have!

but if you want to keep HIM apart, okay, your thing.

I got this "ridiculous 1/3 analogy" from ppl I talk to. The father, the son, and the holy spirit each, when together, are the same. So since we have three, and they are one, doesn't that mean that 1/3 + 1/3 + 1/3 = 1? Simple mathematics... or is it

the father = 5/9
the son = 3/9
the holy spirit = 1/9

5/9 + 3/9 + 1/9= 1?

If it is, then THAT is a view I haven't seen before.

We receive the holy spirit ONLY when we continue down the righteous path (or try good to do so). By simply saying "I believe in God" does nothing. Heck, criminals, rapists, thieves, hackers, fornicators, adulterers, they all believe in God too.

You are right though, that we CAN allow the holy spirit in us... there's just terms and conditions we must fulfill.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by iKwak

Yeah the 1/3 analogy didn't make sense at all.

Then I WILL ASK THE QUESTION... What does trinity mean?

I could have sworn that it means 2 beings and a power are all the same oneness (or a very similar derivative).

[xiaoxue]

trihune god=father-son-holy ghost=trinity
please do not trivialize this precious matter into fractions as we are talking about one omnipotent entity here not parts of a machine.

may i presume "witness" is in the title of your following?

Originally Posted by JPWRana

Then I WILL ASK THE QUESTION... What does trinity mean?

I could have sworn that it means 2 beings and a power are all the same oneness (or a very similar derivative).

[i2ealphaze]

I just believe that anyone who really wants to know for themselves if there is a God, that they should read Romans and John in the Bible. I mean even non-Christians say the Bible is a good book to know. Take for instance the book of Proverbs, many words of wisdom can come from there. Just try reading before judging is all I'm asking. Here's just a few verses from the first chapter of Romans.


[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


I believe that if you really gave God a chance to show Himself to you by reading the Bible, He will reveal himself to you. Then it will be your choice to take it or not.

[xiaoxue]

great passages...and proverbs is an AWESOME book of wisdom...thanks!!!

Originally Posted by i2ealphaze

I just believe that anyone who really wants to know for themselves if there is a God, that they should read Romans and John in the Bible. I mean even non-Christians say the Bible is a good book to know. Take for instance the book of Proverbs, many words of wisdom can come from there. Just try reading before judging is all I'm asking. Here's just a few verses from the first chapter of Romans.


[18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
[19] Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
[21] Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
[22] Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
[23] And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
[24] Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
[25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
[26] For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
[27] And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
[28] And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
[29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
[30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
[31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
[32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.


I believe that if you really gave God a chance to show Himself to you by reading the Bible, He will reveal himself to you. Then it will be your choice to take it or not.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by xiaoxue

trihune god=father-son-holy ghost=trinity
please do not trivialize this precious matter into fractions as we are talking about one omnipotent entity here not parts of a machine.

may i presume "witness" is in the title of your following?

Trinity is NOT a biblical teaching... I repeat NOT A BIBLICAL TEACHING. You know where it originates from?

YOu are right about one thing... he is "one omnipotent"... I dont think entity would be the right word... being (particularly spiritual being) would better fit... but I suppose "entity" CAN still fit.

You may presume all you want.

[JPWRana]

mods please delete this post.