Cal Poly SLO discrimination?

[swagner]

Cal Poly SLO is currently facing a lawsuit which contends that the schools admissions policy (which does not take race as a factor) is racially discriminatory (one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard). Refer to this article :

"According to an article in today’s Los Angeles Times, California State University in San Luis Obispo (Cal Poly)


is widely regarded as the academic star of the California State University system and ranks as one of the best regional universities in the West. It regularly competes for strong students against top UC schools. And it often wins.

Yet by another measure, Cal Poly falls short when compared with other selective California schools: its enrollment of blacks, Latinos and Native Americans.


Stuart Silverstein and Doug Smith, the LAT writers, make it clear that they believe Cal Poly doesn’t measure up.

Cal Poly provides a case study in what can happen when a highly selective school, prohibited from considering applicants' race and ethnicity, makes few allowances for weighing other personal qualities in the admissions process.

Cal Poly admits students largely by the numbers — grade point averages and test scores. Admissions decisions are so automated that applicants don't even submit an essay, and no one in the admissions office actually reads a typical application.

The contrast with UC schools is striking. They consider such factors as students' ability to overcome socioeconomic disadvantages and other hardships — a process that can be subjective and lately has proved controversial. Two regents have questioned whether the system amounts to backdoor affirmative action. [Editorial comment: “can be”??]


Carried to its logical conclusion, this approach ultimately questions the very idea of academic selectivity. And, in our legalistic culture, everything is always carried to its logical conclusion.

In January, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund sued Cal Poly for discrimination, contending that the campus' heavy reliance on the SAT penalizes Latinos because they generally score lower than whites on the exam.
....
Victor Viramontes, a defense fund lawyer handling the case, said the university compounds the problem by trumpeting the high average scores its students earn — a factor that could turn off potential Latino and black applicants.

The contrast with the traditional civil rights movement could not be more dramatic. In the old days, i.e., before affirmative action, civil rights advocates opposed what they called “white male discretion” as a cover for discrimination, and they argued for merit, claiming that racial discrimination irrationally excluded many better qualified candidates in favor of less qualified ones only because of skin color. Now civil rights advocates argue for discretion and against merit. Go figure.

Finally, here’s a question for diversiphiles: which higher education system is more diverse: one in which every campus regulates admissions so that they all accurately reflect the racial and ethnic demographics of the state; or one in which most campuses do so but one or two continue to stress colorblind merit?

"

What do you think?

[swagner]

PS-...this is the stance at the MALDEF site :
"MALDEF Sues Cal Poly San Luis Obispo For Admissions Policies
Geographical preferences and misuse of standardized test scores unfairly favor whites at the prestigious Cal State campus

January 9, 2004
Cal Poly SLO Lawsuit.


Calling the university’s admissions system “dysfunctional and unfair” to minorities, MALDEF filed a lawsuit against Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and university officials on Wednesday, January 7, 2004 (Garcia v. California Polytechnic State University, San Luis Obispo, San Luis Obispo Superior Court, Case No. CV040017, Judge Roger T. Picquet).


In the complaint, on behalf of the League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) and three honors public high school graduates, MALDEF contends that the elite Cal State campus uses discriminatory admissions criteria, including geographical preferences, and misuses standardized test scores. The use of the two factors not only has a demonstrable discriminatory effect on Latinos, but the university cannot demonstrate their educational value, alleges the suit.


Each campus of the California State University system has its own admissions criteria. Cal Poly SLO admits students based on point scores derived from a number of factors. The geographical preference, which provides 250 points to applicants within a particular area encircling the school, favors an area with a heavier white population than the state as a whole and a smaller proportion of African Americans, Latinos, and Asian Americans than California as a whole. Thus, states the suit, the preference operates to benefit whites at the expense of minorities.


“A prestigious government-supported university should never prefer applicants from a smaller area that is whiter and less diverse than the entire state whose taxpayers support the school,” said MALDEF Vice President of Litigation Thomas A. Saenz.


The Cal Poly campus also attaches great weight to an applicant’s SAT or ACT score. Depending on one’s intended major, between one-quarter and more than one-third of an applicant’s total point score derives from his or her score on the SAT. The SAT has consistently shown a racially discriminatory bias as Latinos receive lower scores than whites.


“The SAT reflects performance on only one half day rather than measuring achievement throughout high school, and the validity of the SAT in predicting college success is dubious at best,” stated MALDEF Staff Attorney Victor Viramontes. “This is a clear misuse of standardized test scores.”


Dave M. Rodriguez, National Vice President for the Far West Region of LULAC, one of the plaintiffs in the case, stated, “As over one-third of the state’s residents, Latinos will no longer put up with state universities placing unfair and unjustified barriers in front of Latino students’ educational progress.”


Staff Attorney Viramontes added, “These challenged admissions policies are dysfunctional and unfair. Many deserving Latinos have had their educational dreams crushed because these illegal and misguided policies bar them from ever taking a seat in a Cal Poly SLO classroom.”
"

[Admin]

Originally Posted by swagner

Finally, here’s a question for diversiphiles: which higher education system is more diverse: one in which every campus regulates admissions so that they all accurately reflect the racial and ethnic demographics of the state; or one in which most campuses do so but one or two continue to stress colorblind merit?

Thanks for sharing the article swagner. In my opinion, ethnic discrimination is inevitable and the subliminal messages built into today's media helps continue the evergoing discrimination. If the plaintiff's charges are all true, I hope MALDEF win the court case. If the prospective student is capable to succeed in college based upon their SAT scores and overall GPA, the student should not be discriminated based on where they came from, their race, and what not.
U.S. is built around capitalism and capitalism leads to competition. And competition leads to discrimination. Is cool to know Cal Poly SLO is considered an elite' university.

[Admin]

This is a quote from a friend:

Originally Posted by Daniel

Well I go to UCLA and I see a lot of this so-called "segregation." This is especially prevalent among the asian ethnicities.

Too often I see the [asian group 1] students only hanging out with other [asian group 1]. The [asian group 2] hang out with [asian group 2]. The [asian group 3] hang out with [asian group 3]...and so on.

Sure, there is a level of comfort that exists when you are with a person that is of the same ethnicity as yours, but I think when you become that exclusive, you are missing out...and you are definitely at a big disadvantage.

At UCLA...there are Christian ministries such as KCCC, KCM, CCM, etc...that are mainly asian-(korean and chinese)-dominated. They eat together, play together, study together, so forth...and it's rather disheartening to see, because I cannot help but think that they are missing out. It almost seems as if they are living in their own little worlds separate from the rest of the community. They claim that their main purposes are outreach and to spread the word of God to non-believers at UCLA...yet it almost seems ironic that these groups appear so "ethnically segregated" to the non-asian student's eyes.

My three best buddies at UCLA are South American, African American, and Philipino. They're non-Christian, as well. And I am so thankful that God has given me such a great opportunity not only to learn a lot through a socio-cultural experience, but also I have been given a chance to talk about Christ to non-believers.

So I must say...it irks me when I see so many Asian-Americans not taking advantage of the diverse multi-ethnic culture that comprises Southern California. Might as well live in [Asian country] if you're not going to take advantage of the diversity, no? (Then agian, I attend one of the largest [Asian] churches in California--so I have a lot of work to do too)

My best friends in New Jersey were Indian, Sri Lankan, Taiwanese, Chinese, Philipino, African American, "American"/Caucasian, and of course Korean as well. And once again, I had tremdendous opportunities to not only spread God's word, but to learn more about other cultures.

I hope that you all truly take advantage of Southern California's melting pot of cultures.

So, what do you guys think?

[Bryansix]

Dude, the aligations by MALDEF are completely unfounded and have no factual basis. If people are admited by the numbers then that is assuming all high schools actually are equal. This is in fact not the case. Students in sub par schools mainly from poor neighborhoods can learn a lot less, and get the same GPA if they try just as hard as students in good schools. Usually they will have a better GPA. This means they should have an advantage to the admission process, not a disadvantage. Now as to whether there is a reason MALDEF wants to claim certain races of students have worse GPA's from thier high schools; it is irelevant. The only thing they maybe could argue for is students who are ESL (English second language). ESL students already have special admissions.

Also I find it interesting that Cal Poly Pomona is one of the most diverse campuses in the nation. Cal Poly Pomona almost never stops students from being admitted until recently because of budget cuts. The problem is, CPP is overloaded with Students who don't care. I'm sure a look at the figures will show the freshman drop-out rate is much higher then at SLO. Sadly, some people just can not handle college. So using a filter like GPA is a good idea sometimes. And people who don't make it can always save a bunch of money, go to a community college and then transfer to SLO.

[twinkie]

Have your friend ever considered that most caucasians are racist? There is a reason why most asians stick together.
Or he is one of those "asian fetish" white boys trying to find an asian trophy girl?

Originally Posted by KayCee

This is a quote from a friend:

[Bryansix]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Have your friend ever considered that most caucasians are racist?

Exactly where do you come off saying something like this? Why must people pull the race card all the time. It is rediculous. First off most white people I know are not racist. I am not racist. I take offense to anyone stereotyping white people as racist.

[Admin]

Yeah, we shouldn't generalize a race because we had some problems with an individual from that race. But is tough, isn't it?

I was told by people who are more "experienced" (older than I) in life and they tell me that I should diversify my college experience. Meaning, I should meet college students from different countries. But I also learned from my own experience, that there a lot to learn from your own ethnic groups. There is not enough time to go around and get to know many people. College (4-5) year goes by very quick and I think students tend to stick with people they have a similar interest (background, race, etc.). I still don't know the culture/history/trend of the Phillipine, Thailand, China, Vietnam, and etc. and I would want to learn about them by meeting those particular asian students.

Everyone is different and have their own preference on who to meet and make friends with.

[Umpsy]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Have your friend ever considered that most caucasians are racist? There is a reason why most asians stick together.
Or he is one of those "asian fetish" white boys trying to find an asian trophy girl?

ya, umm, @#$% you. That's one of the most racist things I've ever seen.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Umpsy

ya, umm, @#$% you. That's one of the most racist things I've ever seen.

Such an intellectual reply, must be a Pomona student.

[Bryansix]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Such an intellectual reply, must be a Pomona student.

Twinkie, you must really be trying to piss people off. First off, you are racist. Then you make blanket statements about White people being racist. Then you insult the intelligence of all the students at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (Where I have my degree from btw).

I vote Twinkie gets banned from this site.

[Umpsy]

Originally Posted by Bryansix

Twinkie, you must really be trying to piss people off. First off, you are racist. Then you make blanket statements about White people being racist. Then you insult the intelligence of all the students at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (Where I have my degree from btw).

I vote Twinkie gets banned from this site.

I second this motion.

[Ketcham82]

Originally Posted by swagner

Stuart Silverstein and Doug Smith, the LAT writers, make it clear that they believe Cal Poly doesn’t measure up.

You want to know what I think? I think you're plain stupid. You and the rest of the stupid people in the world who think journalists write about their "beliefs" in news stories are just down right ignorant. That is a hasty assumption and it just asserts your ignorance. Journalist only observe and record what the facts are. When journalists source other people who "believe" in something, it, however, does not imply that the journalist believes it too.

So please, you and the rest of the ignorant world, stop making ignorant assumptions about journalists and let us do our jobs. Thanks you moron.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Bryansix

Twinkie, you must really be trying to piss people off. First off, you are racist. Then you make blanket statements about White people being racist. Then you insult the intelligence of all the students at California State Polytechnic University, Pomona (Where I have my degree from btw).

I vote Twinkie gets banned from this site.

I don't know whether your stupid or ignorant, or both.

Have you traveled anywhere in the US outside of CA? Like somewhere in the middle or south? Have you asked any of those hicks (which is the majority of US) what they think of other races? Have a clue and smell reality little one; most Caucasians are racist or ignorant, or both and that is a fact.

Do you know how many Hate Crimes are committed every year by Caucasians?

Most Caucasians are racist and the African-American had 100 years worth of proof. Case closed, if you don't like it, do something about it. If you think that is wrong, educate your peers. If you aren't racist, then educate those that are.

But to say that I'm racist, you are seriously mistaken.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Ketcham82

You want to know what I think? I think you're plain stupid. You and the rest of the stupid people in the world who think journalists write about their "beliefs" in news stories are just down right ignorant. That is a hasty assumption and it just asserts your ignorance. Journalist only observe and record what the facts are. When journalists source other people who "believe" in something, it, however, does not imply that the journalist believes it too.

So please, you and the rest of the ignorant world, stop making ignorant assumptions about journalists and let us do our jobs. Thanks you moron.

Journalists theoretically are supposed to write only the facts, but in reality, they taint most of the facts they write on.

The bias begins from the moment the reporter chooses which story they wish to cover or get assigned to. Due to political, institutional, and commercial reasons, how accurately the facts are presented will be influenced. The fact is that journalists are humans, and humans will have an opinion to color a fact. On top of that, all news organizations are run like a business. The prime interest is profit. How they obtain their “facts” is another topic all together.

[Ketcham82]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Journalists theoretically are supposed to write only the facts, but in reality, they taint most of the facts they write on.

The bias begins from the moment the reporter chooses which story they wish to cover or get assigned to. Due to political, institutional, and commercial reasons, how accurately the facts are presented will be influenced. The fact is that journalists are humans, and humans will have an opinion to color a fact. On top of that, all news organizations are run like a business. The prime interest is profit. How they obtain their “facts” is another topic all together.

And who are you to say? Are you a media mogul? If so, how long have you been on the business? In what media organization have you worked on?

Journalism is a profession, not a hobby you moron. It's not like you can say, "well, today I'm going to write about this and I'm going to write it this way." Facts are facts, and a fact speaks for itself. Any journalist caught cheating, like what most of you do during your mid-terms, with facts are immediately shunned from the world of journalism. Newspapers take it very seriously whenever a journalist displays some sort of opposition or inclination toward their sources. That's why you can't get a job as a journalist these days if you haven't had the proper education in what it really takes to have self-control and self-discipline in writing the facts. People who don't have those qualities don't last long enough.

So, the next time you start judging a journalist's integrity, think about what it takes to be a real journalist. It's only people like you who would never understand because you are the one that has distorted visions of the world and how it functions.

[twinkie]

Originally Posted by Ketcham82

And who are you to say? Are you a media mogul? If so, how long have you been on the business? In what media organization have you worked on?

Journalism is a profession, not a hobby you moron. It's not like you can say, "well, today I'm going to write about this and I'm going to write it this way." Facts are facts, and a fact speaks for itself. Any journalist caught cheating, like what most of you do during your mid-terms, with facts are immediately shunned from the world of journalism. Newspapers take it very seriously whenever a journalist displays some sort of opposition or inclination toward their sources. That's why you can't get a job as a journalist these days if you haven't had the proper education in what it really takes to have self-control and self-discipline in writing the facts. People who don't have those qualities don't last long enough.

So, the next time you start judging a journalist's integrity, think about what it takes to be a real journalist. It's only people like you who would never understand because you are the one that has distorted visions of the world and how it functions.

Young grasshopper, you are very ignorant and not very smart. I hope that you save your reply above and read it 5-10 years down the line to see how foolish you sounded.

Because journalism is a job (as you have state), you really believe that they write for the good of the public? Don't make me laugh. They write for whatever their publishers can sell or some exciting story that will put their name in the front page. Get a job if you don't know what I'm talking about. Throughout history, journalists have been caught twisting the truth to sell stories. That is a fact.

I don't have the time nor desire to teach you about reality. However, I’ll be generous and bequeath a quote to you: “It is better to remain silent and thought of a fool, than speak, and remove all doubt.”

If you still believe journalism is not for sale, then ask yourself one question: How come no media coverage was given to the free giveaway of digital spectrum in 1997? Think real hard.

[phoenixmemori]

Originally Posted by twinkie

I don't know whether your stupid or ignorant, or both.

Have you traveled anywhere in the US outside of CA? Like somewhere in the middle or south? Have you asked any of those hicks (which is the majority of US) what they think of other races? Have a clue and smell reality little one; most Caucasians are racist or ignorant, or both and that is a fact.

Do you know how many Hate Crimes are committed every year by Caucasians?

Most Caucasians are racist and the African-American had 100 years worth of proof. Case closed, if you don't like it, do something about it. If you think that is wrong, educate your peers. If you aren't racist, then educate those that are.

But to say that I'm racist, you are seriously mistaken.

well..i don't really agree with what you said from your previous posts...you sound racist to me if you say that most caucasians are racist. i hang out with white people and they're really nice...maybe (nowadays) if you wanna argue that from other places outside of california that caucasians are racist, is probably because other races let them to be, since they think whites are more "superior" to them (in some situations). have you heard of/seen that whenever a white person goes to a foreign country (like asia, africa...etc...not europe), most of the people in the foreign country look up to them and try to serve/treat them better than their own race? do you see what i'm getting at? it's just a thought...

[xiaoxue]

Originally Posted by twinkie

Such an intellectual reply, must be a Pomona student.

hey twinkletoes, where are you coming off? sounds like you are an expert on the intellect of pomona students and an expert on racism, too. if you are a snob from slo i will give you only one point...you are ranked first in the csu system but you are the ONLY school ahead of pomona!!!
now, who ranks better at racism? our student body at pomona is one third asian, one third caucasian (actually, we yellow people are the plurality) and one third everybody else...READ DIVERSE STUDENT BODY...who tolerates everybody. every time i go up to visit friends at our poly sister school all i hear is "monkey" and "computer geek" talk about me and my friends. slo is a whitey campus that seems to be intolerant of others. that's why so many smart asian kids pass on slo and come to pomona. your loss, pomona's gain.