Gay Bishop

[Puffguts]

I am not very familiar to the teaching of the bible. Does it specificly state against homosexuality? I would like to be informed more on the controversy and its possible violation of the core emphasis of the bible.

If so then it would be improper to force the followers to accept the bishop. It would be like having an Minority to become the head of a racial hate group, a dictator to become the chairman of ACLU or a active Neo-Nazi to become the leader of NAACP.

It is facinating to learn about different religions. My friend is a Muslim and he explained in great detail about the teaching of the Qur'an. Even though I indulges on the earthly desires and unable to follow either the Christian or Muslim teachings, I am still facinated by the bible as a literature (there is a course about it here at Cal Poly, under the English major courses).

[Admin]

Yes, it does state specifically on the bible. I can get you quotes if you like but I need to seach as I am not an avid reader. I'm sure you can find tons of information and topics concerning the gay bishop at christianforums.com.

Lot of people may not know (since it has not been publicized) but there are a large portion of priests and leaders around the nation that were against the acceptance of the new gay bishop. Many churchgoers stopped attending the church because of the new bishop while others stayed.

I was listening to a sermon on the radio and the topic of the sermon was focusing on many reasons why it was wrong and going against God's will.

[Polygirl]

I'm not saying they should be hypocrates. But, I think that times have changed, we can't take the bible literally. Also, there are things that are amended, because there are laws in the bible that are very harsh. I too can bring a list if you please, of things that are commanded, yet we don't do.
Also, my rabbi is not going to tell me how to conduct my sexual life. Yes, he will tell me that the bible tells me it is a mitzva (a good thing, and something I must do) to have children, that I should get married and continue the circle of life... And yet, how many people think that we should try to help the children that are already here and starving, in places far far away from our cal poly pomona reality. Also, according to my religious beliefs, I do not understand how there could be priests that aren't allowed to be married and have kids... And yet, I respect them and let them be. Yet, according to my religion they should have kids, it's a mitzva to do so...
so, let us not speak of hypocracy. All I say is that we should let people be happy and lead there life. I know you want a leader you can follow their footsteps, but if he wants to preach because that is what he loves to do, and respects everything about the religion, does everything right, is a great example, and he is homosexual because that is what he is, and not to be so would be hypocritical. Isn't he teaching a lesson in hypocracy? Because if you are telling him he is wrong, that he should his ignore his way of thinking, and be hypocritical to himself so that everyone will be happy, and THEN will they listen to him preach... then, who is asking hypocracy from whom???

[JPWRana]

we'll in the bible it does say how we should conduct ourselves sexually... meaning not fornicating or commiting adultery, incest, beastiality. These are Jehovah's rules. If you don't like them, then don't obey them. If you don't obey them... we'll good luck living on your own.

[Admin]

Off topic (back to JPWRana and Puffguts animal tv): homosexual behavior has been observed in more than 450 species, including giraffes, zebras, and bonobos ( ).

[Puffguts]

I didn't know about the extend of animal homosexuality besides the observations conducted by the Nature program, which was aired by the PBS, and the several books listed by Salon.com and Amazon.com after we discussed about this issue. I think biologists or animal behavior specialists should be aware of them, unless they specificly decided not to look into these behaviors.

[Benji]

Very interesting topic. Homosexuality is inevitable and becoming a social norms thanks to television. And thanks to music videos and MTV, is cool being a lesbian during high school.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by KayCee

Yes, it does state specifically on the bible. I can get you quotes if you like but I need to seach as I am not an avid reader. I'm sure you can find tons of information and topics concerning the gay bishop at christianforums.com.

Lot of people may not know (since it has not been publicized) but there are a large portion of priests and leaders around the nation that were against the acceptance of the new gay bishop. Many churchgoers stopped attending the church because of the new bishop while others stayed.

I was listening to a sermon on the radio and the topic of the sermon was focusing on many reasons why it was wrong and going against God's will.

The bible also says that eating "unlean animals" is a sin. Have you ever eaten pork?

[Steven]

I found another interesting quote from the bible. "If a man commits adultery, both the adulterer and adulteress shall be put to death." This would result in a lot of dead people.

[Admin]

Good point. Since I do not know the bible in and out, let me try my best to answer your post. If anyone wants to share their input, you are more than welcome.
I attend a presbyterian church and I believe in both the Old and the New testaments. The book of Leviticus is in the Old testament and that rule applied to everyone. Then Jesus Christ was sent by God to save everyone from going to hell. If you believe in Jesus Christ and accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour and repent of your sins, you are good to go. Therefore, men continues to commit adultery and sin after sin, men can repent and not put to death (end up in hell after life) if the individual accepted Christ.

I've eaten pork. The New Testament also applied here and different denominations in christianity should apply also.
My answer is very limited as you can see. Any more questions Steve? I'll try to answer your question in the best of my knowledge.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by KayCee

Good point. Since I do not know the bible in and out, let me try my best to answer your post. If anyone wants to share their input, you are more than welcome.
I attend a presbyterian church and I believe in both the Old and the New testaments. The book of Leviticus is in the Old testament and that rule applied to everyone. Then Jesus Christ was sent by God to save everyone from going to hell. If you believe in Jesus Christ and accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour and repent of your sins, you are good to go. Therefore, men continues to commit adultery and sin after sin, men can repent and not put to death (end up in hell after my one and only so called my one and only so called life) if the individual accepted Christ.

I've eaten pork. The New Testament also applied here and different denominations in christianity should apply also.
My answer is very limited as you can see. Any more questions Steve? I'll try to answer your question in the best of my knowledge.

Assuming what you have said is true, all the rules in the Bible are meaningless. You can commit all the sins you want as long as you repent. Therefore a person who kills a million people and repents is better than a person who commits adultery and does not repent. This would also mean that homosexual acts are okay as long as you repent after each act.

[Admin]

Once again, don't take all my words since I could be slightly wrong and a christian pastor could disagree with my response.

When you accepted Jesus Christ as your saviour and you converted your life as a christian, you are not suppose to commit adultery, fornification, homosexual acts, and etc. You are suppose to live your life as a christian and according to the bible. You attend church not only to listen to the sermon but to join a christian bible studies and meetings for fellowship, edification of one another, share testimonies, and etc. When you have converted to christianity, you try your best to live a christ-like life. Of course, there are temptations and you can easily sin and maybe return back to the habitual and sinful lifestyle. Then you should repent and pray and seek help at church from your brothers and sisters. I've listened to a sermon while driving and the pastor mentioned, so is it okay to commit adultery and repent and the next week, you commit adultery again and repent? Of course not. That is not the christian life and you are only lying to yourself, claming that you are a christian.
Also, many christians today claim that they are christian and display godliness on Sunday. Yet they return back to their sinful lifestyle during the weekdays. They claim that they are a christian but of course they are not.

Steven, if you don't mind, what is your religion?

[Steven]

Okay, I'll assume that is what it means to be a Christian. There seems to be two options.

1) If repenting is valid, then what it means to be a Christian is irrelevant. One can do anything one wants as long as one repents afterwards.

2) If repenting is invalid, then most people including you, are condemned without even a second chance.

You may not like people who use the option of repenting too much, but as long as you accept (1), you must also accept the people who repent too much.


To answer your question, I am not religious.

[Admin]

Agnostic? Atheist? None of the above? I have a class at 7:45a.m. and a 25 mile commute to get to school tomorrow. I will either post in the thread or you got yourself a PM.
Yay, hot dog caper tomorrow!

[Steven]

I am an atheist.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by Steven

I found another interesting quote from the bible. "If a man commits adultery, both the adulterer and adulteress shall be put to death." This would result in a lot of dead people.

1) Since you are an atheist... you don't care about these rules.

2) That was the old testament. They had stricter rules, but yeah, you would be right. If the whole world were like this, then there wouldn't be any adulterers living... the world would be a cleaner (not clean, but cleaner) place to live.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by Steven

Assuming what you have said is true, all the rules in the Bible are meaningless. You can commit all the sins you want as long as you repent. Therefore a person who kills a million people and repents is better than a person who commits adultery and does not repent. This would also mean that homosexual acts are okay as long as you repent after each act.

By repenting, that means that YOU DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!!

According to the first and quickest online dictionary that I found (via google), repent means:

"To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it"

"To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins."

So if you ARE TO REPENT, you MUST change your mind regarding what you have done, and to CHANGE FOR THE BETTER... which ultimately will mean that NOT ONLY will you not only do it again, but that the thoughts will start to dissapear from your mind.

If you can't do that... then you haven't repented.

[JPWRana]

Originally Posted by Steven

Okay, I'll assume that is what it means to be a Christian. There seems to be two options.

1) If repenting is valid, then what it means to be a Christian is irrelevant. One can do anything one wants as long as one repents afterwards.

2) If repenting is invalid, then most people including you, are condemned without even a second chance.

You may not like people who use the option of repenting too much, but as long as you accept (1), you must also accept the people who repent too much.


To answer your question, I am not religious.

We'll, (1) is wrong because then YOUR ALREADY PURPOSELY looking for loopholes and trying to find the easy way out. In theory your supposed to also even be pure of mind... meaning that you DONT THINK ABOUT DOING WRONG THINGS, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU THINK YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT BY QUICKLY REPENTING.

What we do on the outside (as in, what others see) is not the same as what we do inside (in our minds.)

Example: I could say im not a fornicator and adulterer... and I could be right too, but if I'm staring at every hot chick and scanning her body and in my mind i'm doing her doggy style... should there be a need 4 me to repent? cuz i never did have sex with her... so why should I repent?

[Steven]

Originally Posted by JPWRana

1) Since you are an atheist... you don't care about these rules.

2) That was the old testament. They had stricter rules, but yeah, you would be right. If the whole world were like this, then there wouldn't be any adulterers living... the world would be a cleaner (not clean, but cleaner) place to live.

1) You are right if you mean that I will not follow the rules. But your are wrong if you mean that the rules are of no interest to me or anyone who is not a Christian. An analogous situtation is the intrest in the laws of countries other than ones own. If one thinks that the laws are not rational, one may be interested to find out why people follow them.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by JPWRana

By repenting, that means that YOU DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!!

According to the first and quickest online dictionary that I found (via google), repent means:

"To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one's mind regarding it"

"To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one's sins."

So if you ARE TO REPENT, you MUST change your mind regarding what you have done, and to CHANGE FOR THE BETTER... which ultimately will mean that NOT ONLY will you not only do it again, but that the thoughts will start to dissapear from your mind.

If you can't do that... then you haven't repented.

Nowhere in either of those definitions does it say "YOU DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!!" Just because one changes does not mean that one will not change back.