Extreme abuse of power

**zoedragon** · 10-08-04, 11:17 AM

I watched a rented copy of Fahrenheit 9/11 last night. ALL Bush-supporters need to see this, and those of you who already distrust him will grow to hate the man after you learn about all the conspiracies this man was in the middle of. Well, hate is a very strong word. Let's just say extreme dislike!

Have any of you seen this documentary yet? I already knew that the war in Iraq was all about oil, not "liberating" people. But I had no idea HOW much it was about making money! And not even money for the United States. Money for personal gain. It makes me sick.

Bush Sr. and Jr. are both board members of The Carlisle Group, a giant defense corporation. Bin Laden's family invested heavily into them, in a sense making them business partners. Wouldn't both parties stand to make a great deal of wealth if the U.S. were to go to war? You bet they would! And multiple war-related government contracts were given to Halliburton, which was headed by Cheney himself.

When a leader is weak and his people are not united around him, what better way to get their love and admiration than by creating an enemy to rally against? Allowing a tragedy such as 9/11 to happen united the people and made him look good for all his "let's fight the terrorists" parading. And they certainly played up the terror, didn't they? What better way to get unreasonable bills like the Patriot Act passed than to prey upon people's fears? Keep people scared and you can pretty much do what you want if it has any semblance of being for your "protection".

If you did see the movie, what did you think of it? I will admit that a lot of the movie very biased in the way it protrayed the president. Parts of it may even be unfair. But the facts and evidence that it brings up far outweigh the propaganda factor. You can't pull evidence like that out of your ass. So despite the heavy liberal skew to the film, I think it was a good bit of investigative work. It's about time there was a voice from the other side. The media has been controlled by the Republicans for far too long.

**PandaMoOo** · 10-08-04, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoedragon

When a leader is weak and his people are not united around him, what better way to get their love and admiration than by creating an enemy to rally against? Allowing a tragedy such as 9/11 to happen united the people and made him look good for all his "let's fight the terrorists" parading.

Your quote reminds me a lot about hitler.

You haden't seen it before? Oh my! Everyone should see it! One thing to remember is Michael Moore is an excellent at stretching the truth! He does point out a LOT of facts... but his conclusions are his opinons, keep that in mind.

Most disturbing thing to me in the film, was like you said; The deep money ties. Did you know Vice President Dick Cheney USED TO BE the CEO of Haliburton before he became Vice President?

Guess who won a MULTI billion dollar non-bid contract with the government to rebuild Iraq? Did you know Kenneth Lay of Enron has signifigent ties to Bush?

Talk about terrorists.... Enron caused more economic hardship then the 9/11 caused. Our economy lost billions (millions?) because of the stock crash of Enron... and subsequent stock scares. But don't go around saying that Bush is a terrorist, or a war criminal, due to the patriot act he might just flippin' declare YOU a terrorist for going against him. After all, we all must stand together and support our troops even if going to war was based on false pretense as Weapons of Mass Destruction.

I hope everyone can read my mind clearly, I am heavily biased, but Bush is an asshole and is supporting bad things for this country, and if you want to blindly follow him, he'll give you a tax return so our deficit increases.

I really have NO IDEA why SOOOOO many people in this world believe in him and are willing to put themselves for another 4 years of this. Ugh. Ugh. It makes me sick to think Bush is leading in the polls still.

**zoedragon** · 10-08-04, 02:24 PM

I have a very good idea why so many people actually voted for that self-serving bastard: because they didn't know any better. He's from big money and all his cohorts are from big money. The only things they are interested in is MORE money. They use the big money they already have to buy off the media. The general public watches TV more than they read, and if it's on TV it must be true, right? TV News may like to boast about how they go after the facts and bring the news to you "first". But TV News is all about big money too. If you have any conspiracy theories about all these things, they're probably true. Big-moneyed interests will gladly help each other step on the public to make their pockets deeper. It is very infuriating.

If you have any friends or relatives who are on the fence about re-electing Bush, have them watch Fahrenheit 9/11. It's full of opinions, but it'll open your eyes to some facts that were conveniently left out of Republican disclosures.

Keng · 10-08-04, 02:32 PM

Funny thing is Michael Moore is very selective on what opinion to put into the movie. TLC/Discovery or History channel (?) went over this before. It's very bias but that's why he created that movie...

**PandaMoOo** · 10-08-04, 02:36 PM

TLC? History Channel? What'd they say? I liked the satire History Channel coverage of the republican convention, it was comical, yet still informative.

Excellent note there about unchallenged republican views, even some democrats are afraid to stand up and say "where are the weapons?" This huge anti-terrorist movement has left everyone on their toes trying to be ultra-secure, not enough people are questioning what measures are being taken, even democrats are being sensitive about how they phrase things to make sure they sound tough. Those terrorists did a damn good job of ruining our country.

**zoedragon** · 10-08-04, 02:55 PM

You mean those deep-pocketed organizations interested in nothing but money did a good job ruining our country. The FBI was well aware that known terrorists were taking flight training in our own flight schools. This intelligence was ignored. Members of the Bin Laden family that were in the U.S. at the time were promptly shipped out when all other flights were grounded, before any investigators could question them. Things like this can only happen when orders are given from the very top. Americans weren't being "protected" by Bush's decisions, we were being swindled.

Ketcham82 · 10-08-04, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoedragon

They use the big money they already have to buy off the media. The general public watches TV more than they read, and if it's on TV it must be true, right? TV News may like to boast about how they go after the facts and bring the news to you "first". But TV News is all about big money too. If you have any conspiracy theories about all these things, they're probably true. Big-moneyed interests will gladly help each other step on the public to make their pockets deeper. It is very infuriating.

TV News is not the media. It is a part of the media, but the media is actually everything, from advertisements to films, from newspapers to books. TV broadcasters try to balance their journalistic responsibility of bringing out the truth while at the same time paying some of their tribute to their ratings. It's an undeniable fact that TV is all about ratings, so it's hard to argue that broadcasters aren't in it partly for ratings.

And no, big companies cannot buy the media. It's impossible. The media is immense and cannot be bought with money. If you're ever confused about what the media is, just remember that the media is everything you hear and see in public domains including this website. So is it safe to argue that they bought us too? If you ever write a book, is it safe to argue that big companies bought you too?

Think twice before making an argument and back it up with evidence or else someone else is going to come along and make you look like a donkey.

Ketcham82 · 10-08-04, 04:37 PM

One more thing.

The power still belongs to the people. So if you really want to make a difference besides voting, inform other people including your family members about the importance of choosing a leader.

Because it's that leader that's making us look bad before the rest of the world.

**zoedragon** · 10-08-04, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ketcham82

TV News is not the media.

This is true. Perhaps it was an unwise choice of words on my part. I was only referring to television. Most people watch TV more than they read, and that was the point I was making.

Keng · 10-08-04, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PandaMoOo

TLC? History Channel? What'd they say? I liked the satire History Channel coverage of the republican convention, it was comical, yet still informative.

When Micheal Moore was interviewing in the Senate or House (?) He asked one of the Senator or Represenative (?) that what he think about the family losing their member due to war, that Senator or Represenative (?) said he has niece and family member in Iraq right now. Micheal Moore didn't use that part which prove he's super bias. He created that film solely for the purpose of making Bush lose.

**PandaMoOo** · 10-09-04, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keng

When Micheal Moore was interviewing in the Senate or House (?) He asked one of the Senator or Represenative (?) that what he think about the family losing their member due to war, that Senator or Represenative (?) said he has niece and family member in Iraq right now. Micheal Moore didn't use that part which prove he's super bias. He created that film solely for the purpose of making Bush lose.

Yeah, Michael Moore is like that... throws out evidence here and there and gives a rather slanted view. What other documentaries don't? I think there's one coming out ABOUT Michael Moore called "Michael Moore Hates America."

Another example of slanting information, did you know the original report that said second hand smoking was harmful to other's health was heavily slanted, using cherry picked data? Does it mean it's not that valid? Well... that's not for this topic of discussion but... just because someone is biased doesn't mean you can dismiss their idea and logic as false.

In fact you SHOULD be listening to the other side to see if there's something you're wrong about. I check bush's site every week to see if he has any new revelations, just the same old spin about jobs most of the time. But sometimes not something new and beats Kerry's ideas... I'd probably be mostly republican and traditional if republicans were not full of so much corruption.

***Admin*** · 10-09-04, 01:52 AM

I found a video of Michael Moore giving his speech in University of Central Florida UCF. The video file is about 253mb.

Copy and paste. Five mirrors so choose only one. All same video.

http://hosted.nexus.hytekho sting.us/Moore.wmv

JPWRana · 10-09-04, 09:53 AM

kaycee.. what speech is this for?

Yeah, i saw fahrenheit 9/11 in theatres. It is very biased. He started bashing on Bush EVEN BEFORE HE BECAME president... that part is true... that he didn't win the popular vote. His brother helped him be president.

***Admin*** · 10-09-04, 10:35 PM

Michael Moore gives a speech to the UCF students to register and vote! "Is there enough water bottle up there?"

lost-and-found · 10-11-04, 07:29 PM

I love how Moore won't allow any tape recorders during his speeches....what are you afraid of Mr. Moore, that you might expose how big of a liar YOU are? What a hypocrite.

jayandbutton · 10-11-04, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lost-and-found

I love how Moore won't allow any tape recorders during his speeches....what are you afraid of Mr. Moore, that you might expose how big of a liar YOU are? What a hypocrite.

mr. moore is using the same tactic as news organizations.
you can select out quotes to fit your agenda by cutting and pasting. one could produce a "documentary" about any political candidate in this fashion. it proves very little and his record further proves his bias.

i think these presidential campaigns are far too long. we have been talking the elections now for more than a year. no wonder senator kerry is not voting in the senate; he's been running for president!

Character · 10-28-04, 06:21 PM

It is disturbing that Michael Moore has garnered any credibility for his slurumentary on George W. Bush. Do any of you think that Michael Moore made that film because he just wants people to know the supposed truth? No. He made that film to make money. He is on a speaking tour for publicity because he is a sycophant as most hollywood types are and because he can milk $10G's a pop speaking at universities around our nation. He says that there is no terrorist threat. Really? I can think of over 3,000 families that had loved ones die on 09/11 that would beg to differ. What qualifications does Michael Moore have to comment on security threats to our nation? Is he better qualified to asses a threat than our commander-in-chief? Someone mentioned in a previous reply that George W. Bush allowed 9/11 to happen and used that as an excuse to go war mongering, are you kidding me. It is well documented that Bill CLinton had ample opportunities to obtain Osama Bin Laden, in fact the arabs offered to hand him over to the Clinton administration, but Clinton refused and in case you are wondering about my source, read the Book "The American Prophecies" for some hard facts.

Michael Moore is an opportunist and a fat sloppy one at that. He is not brilliant, or exceptional in any way, he is simply a critic who made a movie with a lot of conjecture and unsubstaintiated opinions disguised as facts.

George W. Bush is not perfect and he has made his share of mistakes along the way, but I believe that while he is not the most eloquent of speakers, he is honest and he wants the best for the people of this nation. Bush doesn't believe that everyone is entitled to something just because they were born here. He believes that if you work hard and pay your dues you can succeed and I believe that too. John Kerry believes that everyone is entitled to something whether they bust their butt or not. With that ideology what is the motivation to work hard, after all even if you are lazy you'll get yours from the government anyway, and you will get yours from the sweat off the backs of people who are motivated and work hard. I for one am tired of paying every lazy man or womans way. I went to college, paid my dues and worked hard to make good money and it took an enormous amount of sacrifice, but it has been worth it. My tax bracket is 40%, John Kerry and his wife paid a tax rate of 12% with an income in excess of $5,000,000, count the zero's folks. Kerry is a hypocrite and condems Bush for giving tax cuts to people like him. He wont get that tax bill repealed either because he will be trying to appeal to a Republican dominated Congress. During Bush's administration we saw the lowest mortgage interest rates in over 50 years which enabled home ownership to be at its highest rate ever. Bush's tax cuts put money in peoples pockets and I for one am for that idea. Kerry talked in his debates about the Bush administration outsourcing jobs, but did you know that john Kerry's family ownes 18 factories that are located outside the United States, talk about outsourcing! He should clean his own house before commenting on the cleanliness of his neighbors. John Kerry is an attorney as is his running mate. Folks,enough said.

Steven · 10-28-04, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Character

He should clean his own house before commenting on the cleanliness of his neighbors.

Why should he do this?

**PandaMoOo** · 10-28-04, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Character

George W. Bush is not perfect and he has made his share of mistakes along the way, but I believe that while he is not the most eloquent of speakers, he is honest and he wants the best for the people of this nation.

I would agree, that everyone wants the best for their country. But who does not? That is no claim to be president... He has made some HUGE mistakes and I don't understand why so many people are blind to the idea that America Invaded a SOVERIGN NATION that was based on FALSE claims of a threat.

Bush may have truly believed that Iraq was a threat, but that doesn't change that we invaded them on a false presumption. We thought they had weapons of mass destruction, thats what our grounds for invasion was. We should have been a smarter country to make sure we didn't make that kind of mistake, but this president let us make that mistake... I have not seen anyone try to fully justify his invasion afterword and actually make it seem logical for us to do so.

Attack Kerry all you want "Character" but Bush made one hell of a mistake, and I can't let him ____ up our country again. And for a word of advice... look up what this guys SAT scores are... and how poorly he did in Yale... and his business record, he is a failed businessman. America is like a country, do you want a failed businessman running your company? Or your country?

Or what? You don't believe all the Enron-Halliburton-Bush ties? Okay fine... dismiss contrary thought like most conservatives.

Michael Moore although made TONS of money on his video, I don't think it was ALL money. He has numerously offered to show free copies. He doesn't care too much if it gets pirated, because he wants people to see it he said. On Jay Leno he offered to show it on TV for FREE to that one station that was going to do an anti-kerry movie. (This would have made him lose the chance at an emmy too, which would have cost him money... so he was willing to LOSE money to get the message out.) A lot of your claims against him are baseless.

Have you even seen the movie? Michael Moore is just up there raising questions about stuff we don't know about.

Character · 10-29-04, 10:43 AM

Did you know that we made these decisions based on our intel and the intel from the U.K.? Yes our intel should have been better, but the U.S. and the president are not infalible. You must realize that Iraq has been a threat to yours and my security since the day Sadam Hussein took power. It is no secret that Sadam paid the families of suicide bombers $25,000 for their Sacrifice for Islam! Their sacfifice. Do you really think that Sadam did not have WMD's just because we did not find them. He knew we were coming and when he had that knowledge he moved those weapons. Were did they go? Nobody knows, but a good guess is Syria which is another Islamic extremist nation. Nobody needs to justify what we did and are doing in Iraq. Sadam kept his people in his Soverign nation as slaves, Sadam was a brutal dictator, murderer, rapist, precipator of genocide against the Kurds. We have found stores of natural Uranium in Iraq. What do you think that was harvested for?Iran is on the cusp of nuclear capability. Do you think that Sadam would sit idly by while his border enemy had WMD's and he did not?! Wake up.

SAT scores? Do you really think that a high SAT score guarantees success in the real world. How very naive of you. I have many clients who have never attended college and have achieved tremendous wealth. How did they do this? They were motivated to work hard, they kept their eyes and ears open and learned how every day real world business works. I would also disagree with you about Bush's business acumen as it is widely recognized that he has been very fortunate in his business endeavors.

Enron and Halliburton ties? Yeah so.... You will learn that once you attempt to earn in the real world that your playing field is never level. If you knew anything about the history of Halliburton you would know that many of these contracts that were awarded to them, were awarded beca

10-08-04, 11:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
zoedragon Fire-breather Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Inglewood, CA Posts: 668	Extreme abuse of power I watched a rented copy of Fahrenheit 9/11 last night. ALL Bush-supporters need to see this, and those of you who already distrust him will grow to hate the man after you learn about all the conspiracies this man was in the middle of. Well, hate is a very strong word. Let's just say extreme dislike! Have any of you seen this documentary yet? I already knew that the war in Iraq was all about oil, not "liberating" people. But I had no idea HOW much it was about making money! And not even money for the United States. Money for personal gain. It makes me sick. Bush Sr. and Jr. are both board members of The Carlisle Group, a giant defense corporation. Bin Laden's family invested heavily into them, in a sense making them business partners. Wouldn't both parties stand to make a great deal of wealth if the U.S. were to go to war? You bet they would! And multiple war-related government contracts were given to Halliburton, which was headed by Cheney himself. When a leader is weak and his people are not united around him, what better way to get their love and admiration than by creating an enemy to rally against? Allowing a tragedy such as 9/11 to happen united the people and made him look good for all his "let's fight the terrorists" parading. And they certainly played up the terror, didn't they? What better way to get unreasonable bills like the Patriot Act passed than to prey upon people's fears? Keep people scared and you can pretty much do what you want if it has any semblance of being for your "protection". If you did see the movie, what did you think of it? I will admit that a lot of the movie very biased in the way it protrayed the president. Parts of it may even be unfair. But the facts and evidence that it brings up far outweigh the propaganda factor. You can't pull evidence like that out of your ass. So despite the heavy liberal skew to the film, I think it was a good bit of investigative work. It's about time there was a voice from the other side. The media has been controlled by the Republicans for far too long.

10-08-04, 02:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
PandaMoOo GCP.com Admin Joined: Aug 2004 Location: Mission Viejo, CA Posts: 401	TLC? History Channel? What'd they say? I liked the satire History Channel coverage of the republican convention, it was comical, yet still informative. Excellent note there about unchallenged republican views, even some democrats are afraid to stand up and say "where are the weapons?" This huge anti-terrorist movement has left everyone on their toes trying to be ultra-secure, not enough people are questioning what measures are being taken, even democrats are being sensitive about how they phrase things to make sure they sound tough. Those terrorists did a damn good job of ruining our country. __________________ -PandaMoOo- www.GradeCalPoly.com

10-09-04, 01:52 AM	#12 (permalink)
*Admin* Think About It Joined: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,946	I found a video of Michael Moore giving his speech in University of Central Florida UCF. The video file is about 253mb. Copy and paste. Five mirrors so choose only one. All same video. http://hosted.nexus.hytekho sting.us/Moore.wmv __________________ Cal Poly Forums Last edited by Admin; 10-10-04 at 01:14 AM.

10-09-04, 10:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
*Admin* Think About It Joined: Sep 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,946	Michael Moore gives a speech to the UCF students to register and vote! "Is there enough water bottle up there?" __________________ Cal Poly Forums

10-28-04, 06:21 PM	#17 (permalink)
Character Newcomer Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 3	Michael Moore? It is disturbing that Michael Moore has garnered any credibility for his slurumentary on George W. Bush. Do any of you think that Michael Moore made that film because he just wants people to know the supposed truth? No. He made that film to make money. He is on a speaking tour for publicity because he is a sycophant as most hollywood types are and because he can milk $10G's a pop speaking at universities around our nation. He says that there is no terrorist threat. Really? I can think of over 3,000 families that had loved ones die on 09/11 that would beg to differ. What qualifications does Michael Moore have to comment on security threats to our nation? Is he better qualified to asses a threat than our commander-in-chief? Someone mentioned in a previous reply that George W. Bush allowed 9/11 to happen and used that as an excuse to go war mongering, are you kidding me. It is well documented that Bill CLinton had ample opportunities to obtain Osama Bin Laden, in fact the arabs offered to hand him over to the Clinton administration, but Clinton refused and in case you are wondering about my source, read the Book "The American Prophecies" for some hard facts. Michael Moore is an opportunist and a fat sloppy one at that. He is not brilliant, or exceptional in any way, he is simply a critic who made a movie with a lot of conjecture and unsubstaintiated opinions disguised as facts. George W. Bush is not perfect and he has made his share of mistakes along the way, but I believe that while he is not the most eloquent of speakers, he is honest and he wants the best for the people of this nation. Bush doesn't believe that everyone is entitled to something just because they were born here. He believes that if you work hard and pay your dues you can succeed and I believe that too. John Kerry believes that everyone is entitled to something whether they bust their butt or not. With that ideology what is the motivation to work hard, after all even if you are lazy you'll get yours from the government anyway, and you will get yours from the sweat off the backs of people who are motivated and work hard. I for one am tired of paying every lazy man or womans way. I went to college, paid my dues and worked hard to make good money and it took an enormous amount of sacrifice, but it has been worth it. My tax bracket is 40%, John Kerry and his wife paid a tax rate of 12% with an income in excess of $5,000,000, count the zero's folks. Kerry is a hypocrite and condems Bush for giving tax cuts to people like him. He wont get that tax bill repealed either because he will be trying to appeal to a Republican dominated Congress. During Bush's administration we saw the lowest mortgage interest rates in over 50 years which enabled home ownership to be at its highest rate ever. Bush's tax cuts put money in peoples pockets and I for one am for that idea. Kerry talked in his debates about the Bush administration outsourcing jobs, but did you know that john Kerry's family ownes 18 factories that are located outside the United States, talk about outsourcing! He should clean his own house before commenting on the cleanliness of his neighbors. John Kerry is an attorney as is his running mate. Folks,enough said.

10-08-04, 02:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
zoedragon Fire-breather Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Inglewood, CA Posts: 668	I have a very good idea why so many people actually voted for that self-serving bastard: because they didn't know any better. He's from big money and all his cohorts are from big money. The only things they are interested in is MORE money. They use the big money they already have to buy off the media. The general public watches TV more than they read, and if it's on TV it must be true, right? TV News may like to boast about how they go after the facts and bring the news to you "first". But TV News is all about big money too. If you have any conspiracy theories about all these things, they're probably true. Big-moneyed interests will gladly help each other step on the public to make their pockets deeper. It is very infuriating. If you have any friends or relatives who are on the fence about re-electing Bush, have them watch Fahrenheit 9/11. It's full of opinions, but it'll open your eyes to some facts that were conveniently left out of Republican disclosures.

10-08-04, 02:32 PM	#4 (permalink)
Keng Guru Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 595	Funny thing is Michael Moore is very selective on what opinion to put into the movie. TLC/Discovery or History channel (?) went over this before. It's very bias but that's why he created that movie...

10-08-04, 02:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
zoedragon Fire-breather Joined: Mar 2004 Location: Inglewood, CA Posts: 668	You mean those deep-pocketed organizations interested in nothing but money did a good job ruining our country. The FBI was well aware that known terrorists were taking flight training in our own flight schools. This intelligence was ignored. Members of the Bin Laden family that were in the U.S. at the time were promptly shipped out when all other flights were grounded, before any investigators could question them. Things like this can only happen when orders are given from the very top. Americans weren't being "protected" by Bush's decisions, we were being swindled.

10-08-04, 04:37 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ketcham82 Enthusiast Joined: Dec 2003 Location: Covina Posts: 188	One more thing. The power still belongs to the people. So if you really want to make a difference besides voting, inform other people including your family members about the importance of choosing a leader. Because it's that leader that's making us look bad before the rest of the world.

10-09-04, 09:53 AM	#13 (permalink)
JPWRana Guru Joined: Oct 2003 Location: where the 605 and 10 fwy's cross Posts: 883	kaycee.. what speech is this for? Yeah, i saw fahrenheit 9/11 in theatres. It is very biased. He started bashing on Bush EVEN BEFORE HE BECAME president... that part is true... that he didn't win the popular vote. His brother helped him be president.

10-11-04, 07:29 PM	#15 (permalink)
lost-and-found Active Member Joined: Nov 2003 Location: La Verne Posts: 82	I love how Moore won't allow any tape recorders during his speeches....what are you afraid of Mr. Moore, that you might expose how big of a liar YOU are? What a hypocrite.