Endless racism

[JPWRana]

US of A 10 characters

[Steven]

Originally Posted by JPWRana

US of A 10 characters

Then how would you be deported anywhere? You are already living in your country of citizenship.

[JPWRana]

we'll... i was just ranting... but your right... they can't deport me. They'd just send me 2 jail for bogus reason like they'd implant some coke on me or somethin

btw... in those "license checks" its ONLY white and black cops (about 20 of them)... ironic... aint it.

[tweetyhack]

My other argument was talking about marketing towards a certain group. The abused woman thing could have been just about anything else. Stop reading the word and try to comprehend what I am trying to say. I am a minority after all and me no speake inglesa.

Sure, a kill for a kill. What's wrong with that? You wrong me, I damn well better wrong you back whether it be monetary compensation, or what have you. Not very sensitive is it?

Let's look at it this way, I enslaved your parents. They've got no money no nothing. Then the law says I gotta let them go. So go. Now your parents are out in the world trying to build a better life. How far do you think they'll get considering their knowledge, skills, education? Now they have children, you and do everything to get you an education and a better life. How far do you think you would get? I doubt you even finish middle school. I know I was working at the age of 12. My brother and sister never finished school. We have to work to put food on the table. Oh, let say you do finish highschool. How do you pay for college? Never heard of financial aid. No house or any collateral to take out a loan on. So I've affected you even though I didn't enslave you directly.

But of course, from your point of view, life is easy.

I just think it takes more than a few generations to get on their feet. All that scholarship is to give them a helping hand. I think there are some white only scholarships too. You know, kkk and skinhead scholarships(haha j/k). I mean there are all kinds of wierd scholarships out there right. Well I think these are also biased towards white America. Say for instance, the airline pilots union(again random example, swagner) offers a scholarship. How many minorities do you think are in this union? And thus biased. So why not be bias the other way.

"I know several minority doctors, lawyers, and enigneers." And I see 1000 times more white doctors, lawyers, and enigneers. Do you see what I'm getting at. What about in Congress? You know they get to write all the laws, right?

JPWRana, I agree with police profiling. It's all about statistics. Statistics show that you are more prone to violent, guntotten, crack smoking, kid slaying, then I hope they pull you over. Now if the show white America with the same statistics, I expect them to be pulled over as well. Equalibrium.

[Steven]

Originally Posted by tweetyhack

Let's look at it this way, I enslaved your parents. They've got no money no nothing. Then the law says I gotta let them go. So go. Now your parents are out in the world trying to build a better life. How far do you think they'll get considering their knowledge, skills, education? Now they have children, you and do everything to get you an education and a better life. How far do you think you would get? I doubt you even finish middle school. I know I was working at the age of 12. My brother and sister never finished school. We have to work to put food on the table. Oh, let say you do finish highschool. How do you pay for college? Never heard of financial aid. No house or any collateral to take out a loan on. So I've affected you even though I didn't enslave you directly.

How many generations back are you willing to consider?

[that-one-guy]

Originally Posted by swagner

Your type of racism is one of the reasons that I chose to go to law school; let me put this into context to help you better understand. Review the following hypotetical situation:

Lets say you wish to apply to CPP. You did very well in high school, making both the honor's program and varsity sports teams. You are more qualified than the average applicant to CPP. However, you find that Cal Poly Pomona only accepts white students. Using your argument, I can define CPP as being "designed" for white people only, and that you should simply "understand". How would you feel then?

Please review your very comment;
1.) "No I mean this program isnt designed for white people "
THEN
2.) "Its not being racist"

-Are you kidding? That is the definitition of racism. Your argument about the "need" fails at every level: "a lot of minorities that need programs like this". Anybody *needs* a college education, regardless of skin color. Your statement dooes several things :
1.) Implies that minorities can't cut it academically on their own
2.) Implies a need based upon no fact
3.) Directly states that racism is "okay" when minorites perform it, but not when whites perform it. Racism is never okay. Your type of logic is the reason that slaves were held in the south years ago; its the reason that blacks were not allowed into "white" schools in the past; and finally, it's the reason minorities will never achieve equality through their programs based upon racist, false, and opportunistic "need". Think about it.

Well your right, if the school explicitly stated that this is a whites only school then i have no business applying in the first place. This isnt racism. If this were the only program of its kind avaialble and it limited the applicants to minorities, then its racism. I belive this add or whatever explicitly states that its for minorities. You, by your own spinned interpretation said, it may have well blah blah "If you are white, you are not welcome here." Thats bogus. There are plenty of programs that take in more whites than minorities. The playing fields are not level.
If certain programs are designed to help underpriviledge minorties it should be viewed upon as a good thing not as a anti white message.

Furthermore, an applicant to a program designed to benefit minorities is subject to review before acceptance is granted. It is almost always need base. and the latter part of the quote a bove blows everything i said out of prorportion to an unlimited degree. It seems that you have come from very nice background and have not seen the crap education you get in underpriviledged areas. If upper class white people can pay for a better education it certainly gives them a leg up. Additionally, the public schooling in beverly hills varies significantly from the public schooling in say watts or compton. I havent implied minorities cant make it on their own. I went to school where this complete nulls that statement. You can not legitmately say that the playing fields are equal when two different cities that vary economically and socialy provide varying qualities of education. Your implying that people from better areas deserve more priviledge. When the playing fields are leveled then we can begin to talk about a system solely based on merit. Programs like the one described are meant to help level the playing fields. This topic extends beyond the scopes of education as well. Why is it that my dad who is a veteran at Boeing and has a higher education than most of his white co workers and does significantly more work, gets paid significantly less than his co workers? It makes no sense. The playing fields are not level, you just havent seen it that way. Its completely ok for a cop to get away with shooting a 13 yrd old boy for joy riding and not get punished. Some world we live in. Things are not equal. Plz stop thinking that they are.

[tweetyhack]

Steven, let me do it for you.

that-one-guy, What country are you from? haha

[SuperMegStar]

I am SO tired of the race card. Excuse me while I go a little off topic.

At CPP, we do not really have a racial majority. Yes, Black and Native Americans make up a lower percentage of the population than Asians, Whites, and Hispanics/Latinos. But think about the percent of the population that is Black or Native American. It is quite proportional to the demographics of So Cal.

The bottom line: your skin color or your last name or your great-great-great grandmother should never be used to benefit OR lose an opportunity. No one is destined to anything. There are too many success stories of people rising out of poverty for me to believe that. Sorry lazy people...

[that-one-guy]

Originally Posted by SuperMegStar

I am SO tired of the race card. Excuse me while I go a little off topic.

At CPP, we do not really have a racial majority. Yes, Black and Native Americans make up a lower percentage of the population than Asians, Whites, and Hispanics/Latinos. But think about the percent of the population that is Black or Native American. It is quite proportional to the demographics of So Cal.

The bottom line: your skin color or your last name or your great-great-great grandmother should never be used to benefit OR lose an opportunity. No one is destined to anything. There are too many success stories of people rising out of poverty for me to believe that. Sorry lazy people...

Its easier said then done. Many have to go up to highschool and then take a job to help feed their families. I am indian as in from India. Certainly success stories are there more power to them. I know people personally through my highschool that have made it. My bud is at UCI doing computer science: His father died at a young age and he is left with his mother and younger sister. His mom doesnt work so they are surviving off social security. Overcoming adversity is quite a feat. It just sucks that the playing fields are not level. People are so naive to think that they are. Certainly things have improved and are continuing to improve, but it will be a while to before things are completely fair. BTW the impoverished are the furthest from lazy except maybe the hobos on the street.

[tweetyhack]

"It is quite proportional to the demographics of So Cal. "

SuperMeg, you are throughly mistaken. What is the percentage of hispanics in California? Take that percentage and see if that matches in colleges, government office, etc. Heck, look in your school and count the number of hispanic instructors, staff, students. Hmm. Seem proportional to you? Oh wait, you don't know because you don't see them picking your vegtables, washing dishes, mowing lawns while you're sleeping comfortably in your bed.

[SuperMegStar]

According to SCAG and the 2000 Census (http://scag.ca.gov/census/pdf/EthnicDataCensus2000 .pdf), hispanics make up about 40% of the So Cal Region. Whites make up about 38% (so whats this whining about Hispanics being a minority? Gimme a break)

Notice I said So. Cal. in my original message, not the whole state. This in no way differentiates between legal and illegal immigrants. I wont go into that now, its a whole new thread.

For my wonderful school that you mention, hispanics make up 30% of the population. So don't give me that field-workin business. And want to know something funny? Whites make up about 30% of the population too. You can see for yourself at the Cal Poly Pomona website, Institute of Research, Assessment, and Planning.

I will leave it at that for now, I have places to go, fruit to pick, and a Latino family to go home to. Think about that next time... Just because someone is against affirmative action doesnt mean they are white.

[that-one-guy]

Originally Posted by SuperMegStar

According to SCAG and the 2000 Census (http://scag.ca.gov/census/pdf/EthnicDataCensus2000 .pdf), hispanics make up about 40% of the So Cal Region. Whites make up about 38% (so whats this whining about Hispanics being a minority? Gimme a break)

Notice I said So. Cal. in my original message, not the whole state. This in no way differentiates between legal and illegal immigrants. I wont go into that now, its a whole new thread.

For my wonderful school that you mention, hispanics make up 30% of the population. So don't give me that field-workin business. And want to know something funny? Whites make up about 30% of the population too. You can see for yourself at the Cal Poly Pomona website, Institute of Research, Assessment, and Planning.

I will leave it at that for now, I have places to go, fruit to pick, and a Latino family to go home to. Think about that next time... Just because someone is against affirmative action doesnt mean they are white.

You know whats funny is that even though its about equal in number its still unequal in terms of everything else.

[tweetyhack]

"40% of the So Cal Region. Whites make up about 38% so whats this whining about Hispanics being a minority?"

SuperMeg, I agree that's the population for SoCal. Northern Cal's not that much different. I'm wrong about the students. My apologies. You forgot to tell me if I'm wrong about staff and instructors. I'm waiting. Let's just look at SoCal and forget about the rest of the country. They got nothing to do with us right? If there's only 38% white in the general population, how come they control 80% of the wealth. (That's just my exagerrated guess. I don't claim to have the numbers. If I am completely off, then there really is no discrimination and the world is a happy peace loving place. If you show me otherwise, I'll shut my piehole.)

What numbers did you get about their income level? I'm glad you brought the numbers into the discussion. This will make it easier for me.

And I never said you were white. I said you live comfortably. Yes, its not unheard of that a few minorities make it big. Look at Tiger woods, Michael Jordan, JZ. Seems to me like that they make it big only in athletics and rap. How many blacks in the Senate and House of Representatives and why? Nobody seems to be able to answer that.

[SuperMegStar]

Sorry I do not have data for Staff/Instructors. I wont try to guess either, but I will be on campus tomorrow. I will be happy to look for the data.

I also have no idea how much of the wealth white people have. I do know America as a whole shares most of the wealth of the world. But that is yet another thread... Why dont you try to find some reliable numbers about income level? I am not sure who we are looking for here...

Oh, and FYI, one of the highest ranking U.S. government officials from 2001-2005 was a black man, and currently in position is our dear friend Condoleezza Rice, a black woman. She didnt cry for welfare and claim racism. She worked hard, used her brain, and look at her now. At one of my jobs my boss (I work for a fortune 500 company) is a black man. At my other job (a public sector job), I report to 4 different people (3 of whom have Ph.D's). One is a black man, one is latino, and one is a woman. And yes, one is a white man. Heck, the president of Cal Poly Pomona is a Latino man. We have two Latino Vice Presidents. These are some of the most prestigious positions in the academic community.

Like I said, there are too many successful "minorities" for me to listen to you all play your world's tiniest violin.

Yes I live comfortably now. That hasn't always been the case. My parents were very poor when I was a child. They worked 5 jobs between them to pay for school, and even after graduating, still were barely able to make ends meet. But never did they try to blame someone else for their lack of "comfort." All this time people cry about how unfair something is could be better spent fixing it, whether at a personal level, community level, or even national level.

Newsflash: life will never be fair.

Stop crying, get to work.

[xiaoxue]

Originally Posted by SuperMegStar

Sorry I do not have data for Staff/Instructors. I wont try to guess either, but I will be on campus tomorrow. I will be happy to look for the data.

I also have no idea how much of the wealth white people have. I do know America as a whole shares most of the wealth of the world. But that is yet another thread... Why dont you try to find some reliable numbers about income level? I am not sure who we are looking for here...

Oh, and FYI, one of the highest ranking U.S. government officials from 2001-2005 was a black man, and currently in position is our dear friend Condoleezza Rice, a black woman. She didnt cry for welfare and claim racism. She worked hard, used her brain, and look at her now. At one of my jobs my boss (I work for a fortune 500 company) is a black man. At my other job (a public sector job), I report to 4 different people (3 of whom have Ph.D's). One is a black man, one is latino, and one is a woman. And yes, one is a white man. Heck, the president of Cal Poly Pomona is a Latino man. We have two Latino Vice Presidents. These are some of the most prestigious positions in the academic community.

Like I said, there are too many successful "minorities" for me to listen to you all play your world's tiniest violin.

Yes I live comfortably now. That hasn't always been the case. My parents were very poor when I was a child. They worked 5 jobs between them to pay for school, and even after graduating, still were barely able to make ends meet. But never did they try to blame someone else for their lack of "comfort." All this time people cry about how unfair something is could be better spent fixing it, whether at a personal level, community level, or even national level.

Newsflash: life will never be fair.

Stop crying, get to work.

LOL!!!

throw that cow bell to the star gal!!!

[zoedragon]

Very convincing argument SuperMeg, and I must say I agree that the lazy people are the ones that complain the loudest despite the opportunities that they do have. I know this wonderful family from Guatemala, parents moved here years ago and the kids were born here. The parents work nonstop to give their kids everything, and here's what I see...

The oldest one is in community college now, but very directionless. He talks about film school and his interest in the arts, but there's no motivation. He doesn't undertake any personal film projects even though his parents got him a camcorder and a digital camera. I've given him scholarship applications, told him about internship opportunities, given him job leads, but he gives minimal effort. He would rather sit on his butt and watch movies than go out and make something of the available opportunities. He calls once, and if no one answers he gives up. It's a running joke with him that if anything doesn't go his way "It's because I'm brown."

Now his younger brother just started high school, but is completely different. He's expressed an interest in becoming a chef, but he doesn't sit on his ass and talk about it all day. He helps his mom in the kitchen as often as he can. He volunteers to bake things for me. I told him volunteering in a cooking school would look good on his record, and he's doing just that. He's motivated to take the opportunities he has, and I'm sure that once he learns how he will also go look for his own opportunities.

This is a clear example of how laziness can hold one back. I'm very interested to see where these two are in 10 years.

[Tarak Chunsa]

If the post is inappropriate, the mod can delete it or something.
[Vent mode] Seriously, why does the hispanics and blacks get a better advantage in getting in to Ivy leagues?! My cousin was a valedictorian and she got rejected to Harvard, and Cornell. Fortunately, she was accepted to Columbia University, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. I mean, asians are high achievers! Hell, I see all this lazy hispanic kids at Cal Poly who don't do sh*t in group works and their work is comparable to a high school student.
Enough venting, read the following post.

Originally Posted by Washington Post

Learning to Stand Out Among the Standouts
By Jay Mathews, March 22, 2005



Robert Shaw, an educational consultant based in Garden City, N.Y., was working with a very bright Chinese American student who feared the Ivy League would not notice her at New Jersey's Holmdel High, where 22 percent of the students were Asian American, and she was only in the top 20 percent of her high-scoring class.



So, Shaw said, she and her parents took his daring advice to change their address. They moved 10 miles north to Keyport, N.J., where the average SAT score was 300 points lower and there were almost no Asians. She also entered, at his suggestion, the Miss Teen New Jersey contest, not a typical activity for the budding scholar.

It worked, Shaw said. His client became class valedictorian, won the talent portion of the Miss Teen competition playing piano and got into Yale and MIT.

"As admissions strategists, our experience is that Asian Americans must meet higher objective standards, such as SAT scores and GPAs, and higher subjective standards than the rest of the applicant pool," he said. "Our students need to do a lot more in order to stand out."

Asian American students have higher average SAT scores than any other government-monitored ethnic group, and selective colleges routinely reject them in favor of African American, Hispanic and even white applicants with lower scores in order to have more diverse campuses and make up for past discrimination.

Many Asian Americans and some educators wonder: Is that fair? Why shouldn't young people of Asian descent have more of an advantage in the selective college admissions system for being violin-playing, science-fair winning, high-scoring achievers?



"Chinese and all Asian Americans are penalized for their values on academic excellence by being required to have a higher level of achievement, academic and non-academic, than any other demographic group," said Ed Chin, a New Jersey physician who has campaigned for years for a change in college admissions procedures.

Yet, Chin notes, Harvard humanities professor Henry Louis Gates Jr. recently estimated that two-thirds of blacks at Harvard are not descendants of American slaves but the middle-class children of relatively recent immigrants from the Caribbean and Africa. "Why should they deserve admission with lowered standards -- relatively speaking -- based solely on the color of their skin over a high-achieving Asian American living in a Chinatown ghetto or a black ghetto, or a poor white from the slums of New York City?" Chin asked.

At some selective colleges, the percentage of Asians on the admittance list is reportedly significantly lower than the percentage of Asians who applied. But colleges usually do not release the ethnic breakdown of their applicants, so there has been little research on the matter.

Stanford University and Brown University, however, studied their admissions data in the late 1980s and found enough evidence of cultural bias and stereotypes to alter procedures.

"Since then, the Stanford staff has been very careful to guard against all kinds of bias in the selection process," said Robin Mamlet, Stanford's dean of admissions. For several years, admissions staff members were trained annually on such issues as shyness to be sure as little bias as possible affected the decision process, she said.

About 25 percent of Stanford undergraduates are of Asian descent, higher than most other such similarly selective colleges as Georgetown, 10 percent; Princeton, 12 percent; Yale, 13 percent; and Columbia, 14 percent. But Mamlet said she cannot be sure if Stanford's higher percentage is a result of different admissions procedures or its location in Northern California, with a large population of high-performing Asian Americans. More than 40 percent of undergraduates at the University of California at Berkeley, for instance, are of Asian descent.



Harvard admissions director Marlyn McGrath Lewis said: "We have no evidence that our admissions committee disadvantages Asian American applicants." Seventeen percent of its undergraduates are of Asian descent, and the university was cleared in 1990 of alleged racial discrimination against Asians. The U.S. Education Department's Office for Civil Rights said whites were admitted at a higher rate but because they included more recruited athletes and children of alumni.

Scholars say Asian cultures tend to emphasize education and say they are not surprised that Asian Americans, who make up 4 percent of the U.S. population, are found in much higher concentrations in selective colleges. In their 1996 book "Beyond the Classroom," Laurence Steinberg, B. Bradford Brown and Sanford M. Dornbusch said that "of all the demographic factors we studied in relation to school performance, ethnicity was the most important. . . . In terms of school achievement, it is more advantageous to be Asian than to be wealthy, to have non-divorced parents, or to have a mother who is able to stay at home full time."

Many Americans, including some of Asian descent, have grown accustomed to seemingly irrational and unfair admissions decisions by selective colleges and shrug off the Asian numbers as something that can't be helped.

But Arun Mantri, born in India with children at Fairfax County's Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, said he thinks the system should change. Asian American applicants' chances "would improve dramatically if race was not used as a factor in admissions, perhaps at the cost of the white applicants, something that only a few selective schools have dared to do," he said.

Victoria Hsiao, who works with Shaw at the admissions strategy firm Ivy Success, said that when she attended Stuyvesant High School in New York, "my Asian friends and I all tried to make ourselves stand out, as we did not want to be stereotyped as Asians with good grades, playing the piano and doing scientific research." She joined the debate team instead of the math team and got into Cornell. Shaw said about 40 percent of his clients are Asian, but he tells all that they need to learn about great but lesser-known colleges. "Students can get a quality education at hundreds of colleges throughout the country," he said, "so parents should definitely expand their horizons to other target competitive institutions beyond the Ivy League." That is not enough for Chin, who compares the limits on Asian admissions to the quotas that Ivy League colleges used to place on Jewish admissions. "There obviously needs to be a change to level the playing field," Chin said. Some estimates put the enrollment of Jews at Harvard as high as 30 percent, he said, "and admissions for them is indeed race and ethnic-group blind."

[Ketcham82]

I can't say that I'm against programs that help Hispanics or Blacks or Asians just because our capitalist system tends to benefit mostly middle-aged white men, but I will say that as a minority I personally don't like to be treated like I'm handicap. I like to stand on my own, even when it comes to looking for a job or networking in the real world. But I'm a different case than most minorities. My parents worked hard and they taught me how to work hard, so we don't complain. We never did.

[xiaoxue]

great post, tarak. i personally have heard admissions officers at selective schools state behind my back that they have too many asian overachievers at their schools and so they therefore must adjust standards differently for different groups. that makes yellow people only work harder. and we do. many of us feel that we have to be twice as good as latinos just to be even. the case you give is a clue. i can imagine mothers of kids in walnut, rowland heights, alhambra, san marino, and monterey park hurrying to get their kids into el monte and la puente schools to find a workaround to get into ivy league schools.

does this suck or what? but we are the quiet minority. we never complain.